Women in Leadership- Part 2

Hey Ladies! This is part two of our Women in Leadership series. Part 1 can be found HERE. If you are new here, every Thursday is Theological Thursday, which means things we post on may be controversial at times but still discusses Scripture. Our goal is not to divide, but to cause you to dig into God’s Word, see what it says for yourself. Do your own studying and pray that the Lord reveal truth because…let’s be honest, we are all seeking truth.

The Women in Leadership discussion is something I approached as, “What if I am wrong?” I sought wise counsel from my husband, my father and mother, but most importantly the Word of God. I am not trying to convince you on way or another, but simply present what Scripture says and leave it up to you ladies to determine for yourselves. I hope you find this post encouraging and uplifting. Women are essential, and even though I believe we should not hold pastoral roles and be leading churches…God has made us ladies with a beautiful purpose and a better one in my opinion. We have very unique and specific roles designed for us, and it is a blessing and honor to get to be a part of that. I do not need to stand from a pulpit to do what the Word of God has asked me to do.

Again, our goal is to encourage you to read and study the Word of God. Read the Scriptures I have provided. I will like to add, this is just my opinion and my conclusion of the Scriptures, after much prayer and seeking a multitude of counselors. I have my sources listed below as well for you to study and refer to them if needed. There are a few sermons I have also referenced from well-known SOLID pastors. Comment your stance under this blog post, and let us know why you agree or why you do not. Be kind, as we are all learning and growing in the Lord. I hope you all can find this message coming from a place of love and gratitude that, why I do not believe women should be preaching, they are made for something that is so much more.

WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP

by Isabel Bryant

Does the bible permit a woman to hold a pastoral role in the church? I would argue that It does not. I am making the case in this blog post that women are not permitted to hold such a role. Drawing mostly from Scripture and some supplementary sources I am going to try to address some of the general confusions about this topic. My attitude is one of encouragement toward women and wives in embracing the roles that God has laid out for both men and women in the whole counsel of his Word.

Women are called by God to embrace honorable and challenging roles. I am going to include this long quote from John MacArthur that sums up well the role of women that God has laid out in his Word. 

“In the creation account of Genesis 1, God’s first word on the subject of men and women is that they were equally created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). Neither received more of the image of God than the other. So the Bible begins with the equality of the sexes. As persons, as spiritual beings standing before God, men and women are absolutely equal. In Genesis 2, there is a more detailed account of the creation of the two equal human beings that reveals differences in their God-given functions and responsibilities. God did not create the man and the woman at the same time, but rather He created Adam first and Eve later for the specific purpose of being Adam’s helper. Eve was equal to Adam, but she was given the role and duty of submitting to him. Although the word “helper” carries very positive connotations—even being used of God Himself as the helper of Israel (Deuteronomy 33:7; Psalm 33:20)—it still describes someone in a relationship of service to another. The responsibility of wives to submit to their husbands, then, was part of the plan from creation, even before the curse. The first books of the Bible establish both the equality of men and women and also the support role of the wife (see Exodus 21:15, 17, 28–31; Numbers 5:19–20, 29; 6:2; 30:1–16). Throughout the Old Testament, women were active in the religious life of Israel, but generally they were not leaders. Women like Deborah (Judges 4) were clearly the exception and not the rule. There was no woman with an ongoing prophetic ministry. No woman was a priest. No queen ever ruled Israel. No woman wrote an Old Testament (or New Testament) book. Isaiah 3:12 indicates that God allowed women to rule as part of His judgment on the sinning nation. In the midst of the Greek, Roman, and Jewish cultures, which viewed women almost on the level of possessions, Jesus showed love and respect for women. Though Jewish rabbis did not teach women and the Jewish Talmud said it was better to burn the Torah than to teach it to a woman, Jesus never took the position that women, by their very nature, could not understand spiritual or theological truth. He not only included them in His audiences but also used illustrations and images that would be familiar to them (Matthew 13:33; 22:1–2; 24:41; Luke 15:8–10) and specifically applied His teaching to them (Matthew 10:34ff.). To the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4), He revealed that He was the Messiah and discussed with her topics such as eternal life and the nature of true worship. He also taught Mary and, when admonished by Martha, pointed out the priority of learning spiritual truth even over “womanly” responsibilities like serving guests in one’s home (Luke 10:38). Although men in Jesus’ day normally would not allow women to count change into their hands for fear of physical contact, Jesus touched women to heal them and allowed women to touch Him (Luke 13:10ff.; Mark 5:25ff.). Jesus even allowed a small group of women to travel with Him and His disciples (Luke 8:1–3), an unprecedented happening at that time. After His resurrection, Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdalene and sent her to announce His resurrection to the disciples (John 20:1–18), despite the fact that women were not allowed to be witnesses in Jewish courts because they were considered liars. In Jesus’ treatment of women, He raised their station of life and He showed them compassion and respect in a way they had never known. This demonstrated their equality. At the same time, however, Jesus still did not exalt women to a place of leadership over men.”(God's High Call For Women). 

Jesus set right the role of women in their family, church and community. Jesus showed that women were called to something much greater than what the Greek, Roman, and Jewish societies had relegated them to. He called women to embrace their God defined roles both in what they should do and in what they ought not do. Women are called to embrace their roles laid out in God’s word not only for the benefit of everyone in their family, but also everyone in their community.

We have the example of the Godly wife in Proverbs 31:10-31. I would encourage you to read Proverbs 31 and the full chapter of the Bible verses that I cite in this blog post. We see the woman working both inside the home and outside of the home all the while though she is obeying God. She is working hard for her family and her community. In Titus 2:3-5 we read that,

“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God”

(Titus 2:3-5).

In his article Costi Hinn writes that,

“God has used women mightily throughout the ages. Across the entirety of the Bible, and today, women are used by God to declare truth, teach, and be a witness for the gospel around the world. However, as we’ve seen, this is not to be done as an authority over the church or as an elder”.

Scripture is clear that women are called to be much more than quiet wives at home. In the discussions over this topic, we have a tendency to focus on what God has defined as off limits for women. This narrowing can oftentimes obscure the awesome calling that God has given to women. 

Much of the discussion around this topic centers on 1 Timothy 2:11-15.

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety”.

(1 Timothy 2:11-15)

Paul begins by clearly stating that “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet”. This is controversial both in our day and at the time when it was written. This quote from Trent Hunter’s article does a good job of clearing up some of the perceived problems with this verse 

“Maybe you have heard of instances in Scripture of a woman teaching—even correcting—a man in private (Acts 18:26), or of how women were the first to testify to the resurrection of Jesus and did so to men (Matt. 28:8). Or perhaps you’ve heard that every church member speaks God’s Word to each other (Eph. 4:15). All of that is wonderfully true. But none of these instances actually describe the authoritative monologue given to an audience from Scripture that is preaching. Furthermore, we actually have passages written directly at this specific question. These passages are clear: the roles of pastoring and preaching are reserved for qualified men. Where does the Bible teach this and, importantly, why? The Apostle Paul instructs Timothy, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man” (1 Tim. 2:12). Some attempt to deny the force of this passage by saying that Paul restricts teaching to men because of something specific to the first century culture. The argument usually goes like this: the Apostle Paul prohibits only uneducated women from preaching; but if they just got educated, then the prohibition no longer exists. Some argue, alternatively, that feminism overran Ephesus (the city where Paul wrote 1 Timothy) so that Paul was offering a corrective for that cultural context alone, but not ours.”

In 1 Timothy, Paul is writing to Timothy in order to address problems that were occurring in the Ephesian church.  In his letters to the churches Paul was addressing the problems that each church faced; some problems overlapped and other problems were more prevalent in certain areas. However, 1 Timothy was not meant only for Christians in Ephesus. Paul is writing to communicate God's word to all Christians at all times. This is evidenced by us reading it today in Scripture. 1 Timothy is necessarily addressed to us because it was included in the canon of Scripture after the new covenant had been established. If this letter was only useful to the Ephesian church during this time period, then the Ephesian church would have received Paul's letter and it would have addressed the problems that were supposedly unique to Ephesus. That would have been the end of the use of 1 Timothy. In 1Timothy, Paul confirms that his letter is to all Christians everywhere,

“I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people.”

(1 Timothy 2:1-6).

We see here and in other letters throughout Scripture that these letters (that would later be compiled into Scripture) are for all Christians everywhere. This is also stated in 1 Corinthians, in Paul’s letter to the Corinthian Church. He is discussing how a church should operate. Paul is very clear in his writings. I will leave the passage below so you can read it.

“For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?  If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.  But all things should be done decently and in order.”

1 Corinthians 14:31-40 (ESV)

Paul is writing to the Corinthian church here, and clearly says, “As in all the churches of the Saints.” His message is geared towards the church as a whole, and he is giving instructions for how a church needs to operate. Paul says, “God is not the author of confusion, but peace” and he also writes, “But all things should be done decently and in order.” This passage goes so far to say that, “if there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands.” This is teaching women to be more dependent on their husbands, and take on more of a submissive role. It is another way to uplift our husbands and help them to be the leader they need to be.

Scripture is very clear.

Before you start reading this portion I would encourage you to get out your bible and to read Genesis chapter 2 and chapter 3. Now that we have the full context of these chapters we start to understand Paul's appeal to Genesis more clearly. God gave the instructions regarding the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to Adam (Genesis 2:16-17). It was Adam's job to teach his wife about the commands that God gave. In Genesis chapter 3, we see the fall. Satan does not come to Adam first instead he tempts Eve. Already in the second chapter of the bible Satan is showing his craftiness and willingness to use strategy to corrupt God’s creation.

Satan says to Eve, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”(Genesis 3:1). Satan here is attacking the weaker vessel Eve. (1 Peter 3:7)

“Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.”

1 Peter 3:7

He distorts God's word in order to make her question the truth of God's Word. She says to Satan “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.” (Genesis 3:2-3). Eve goes past what God says and includes not even touching the fruit. She already has a flawed view of God's Word and so leads the world into sin and corruption. Adam follows his wife and her instruction leading to his fall as well (Genesis 3:6-7). Trent Hunter explains that Paul utilizes not an argument from culture but an appeal to the creation and fall account “Paul, however, roots his argument not in culture but in creation; he grounds his prohibition by saying, “For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim. 2:13, 14). By grounding his argument in creation, Paul’s argument cannot be bound to the first-century, but rather it applies to all men and women across cultures”.

While this blog post is not meant to be comprehensive, I tried to clarify some of the confusion surrounding this topic. I wanted to delve into some of the cultural motivations behind the push for women to hold pastoral roles. However, I didn't want to stray too far from our topic. We are all Christians here, we want to hear an argument from scripture! These cultural trends materialize in many ways at different times but the motivation is always the same. The motivation is to disrupt God's created order. Whether it is the widows who were teaching false doctrine in the community at Ephesus or the cultural Marxists who call for the dismantling of the family and all perceived barriers in the way of equity the target is always God's created order. Woman are responsible for teaching other young women and raising up the next generation in the Word of God. That is a very big role. We have seen failure to do this in our society today, and we are paying a huge price. Raise your children in the Word of God and find other young women to mentor and counsel. It is a role that should not be taken lightly and I see it as a blessing and honor to be tasked with this.

Isabel

Leave a comment and let us know what you think about this perspective.

Bibliography 

Hunter, Trent. “Poking Holes in the Egalitarian Beachball: Seven Arguments against Female Pastors.” Christ Over All, 1 Mar. 2023, christoverall.com/article/longform/poking-holes-in-the-egalitarian-beachball-seven-arguments-against-female-pastors/. Accessed 31 Aug. 2024. 

“Does the Bible Permit a Woman to Preach?” Grace to You, 3 Nov. 2019, www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/81-56/does-the-bible-permit-a-woman-to-preach. Accessed 01 Sep. 2024. 

“What Is the Difference between Pastors, Elders, and Overseers?” Ligonier Ministries, www.ligonier.org/podcasts/ask-ligonier/what-is-the-difference-between-pastors-elders-and-overseers. Accessed 31 Aug. 2024. 

Trebilco, Paul R. The Early Christians in Ephesus from Paul to Ignatius. Mohr Siebeck, 2004. 514 - 515

Hinn, Costi. “Is It Biblical for Women to Be Pastors or Elders?” For the Gospel, 29 Nov. 2021, www.forthegospel.org/read/is-it-biblical-for-women-to-be-pastors-or-elders. Accessed 01 Sept. 2024. 

“God’s High Call for Women.” Grace to You, 18 Aug. 2016, www.gty.org/library/articles/A168/gods-high-call-for-women. Accessed 02 Sept. 2024. 

I encourage you ladies who are truly wanting to study this more to listen to this sermon below.

John MacArthur Video

Women in Leadership-Part 1

This post will start our new series, Theology Thursdays. We will be posting on a controversial topic and stating our opinions on the topic. Women in Leadership is something that the creators of CCW, have differing opinions on. This topic is also something a lot of ladies within the Christian community have differing opinions on as well.

You will hear Audrey’s side today of why she believes women can be in leadership, and mine (Isabel) next Thursday as to why women should not be in leadership.

We do ask that you not attack the poster but rather urge you to dig into Scripture to find answers and comment them below. Feel free to share this blog post with others with your opinion added. The authors of these post will not be engaging in the debates, but you are welcome to have a healthy debate with others. This new series is not to cause division, but to urge you ladies to dig into the Word of God. Audrey and I are not teachers, and these are just our opinions/convictions after reading Scripture and the conclusions we came to through much prayer.

I want to remind you all of our mission statement:

“Encouraging wives to store up God’s Word in their hearts, to understand more of who He is, and to exemplify Christ in their daily lives.”

— CCW MISSION

What better way to do that then to push you ladies to study the Word of God and know what you believe and why. The goal for these posts is not to argue or cause division, but to encourage you ladies to store up God’s Word in your heart.

-If you do not agree, please be kind and comment why giving Scripture to support your thought.

-If you agree, state why and continue to give Scripture to support your stance.

Again, check back Next Thursday to see the opposing side.

Why Women Can Hold Roles of Authority in the Church According to Scripture 

By Audrey Durden

In this post, I will lay out the reasons I believe, according to scripture, that women can hold roles of authority in the church. I'll also be speaking about why I believe pastoring a church should be a role that should be taken on by both husband and wife. 

I'd like to give a disclaimer: I am not here to convince anyone I am right. I simply want to share my point of view as a way to encourage women to dig into scripture and decide for themselves, through studying, praying, and teaching what is the will of God.

Before you begin reading, I encourage you to set aside all the preconceived notions you may have from your childhood, church background, or possibly your family. Come into this discussion not defensive in your heart, but open and willing to learn. I know for a long time I held many beliefs because they were the ideals I grew up hearing. I held my parent's convictions and beliefs because I was scared to open scripture with a humble and teachable heart and let the Holy Spirit lead me. If at the end of this discussion, you take time to pray, read, and learn and your views have not changed, there is nothing wrong with that, stand firm in what the Holy Spirit is doing in your life. Hold firm to the conviction that has been laid on your heart. But, if at the end of this discussion, you feel confused and like you need more clarification, I pray you lean into that! Study, pray, and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you and speak to you regarding this topic.

My sincere prayer is that this topic encourages you to dive deeper into the Word of God, and get to know our Savior and friend better!

Many Christians have very polarizing views on women in leadership. We typically see them saying things like “The Bible is so clear on women in leadership, women are to hold no authority over a man!”. And while I recognize this is a very popular and “safe” view of the Word, I don't think it's as simple as people want to make it out to be.

There is a passage that I have seen used to argue that women have no place in leadership, 1 Timothy 2:10-12, “Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” 

‭‭What we are seeing in 1 Timothy 2:10-12 is similar to what we see Paul telling the Corinthian church to do in 1 Corinthians 11:5.“but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head since it is the same as if her head were shaven.”‭ (This might be something else we disagree on, and that's okay). Just as covering the head was a command to humble the women of Corinth, so was the command to be silent in church for the Ephesians. Though I believe this isn't an absolute command for the church as a whole, I do believe all scripture is profitable, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” This means this command to the Church of Ephesus is something we can all learn from and may also feel convicted of. 

In 1 Timothy where we see Paul telling the women to be silent, he is writing to Timothy who is currently in Ephesus at the church there (also known as the Church of Mary or Church of St. Mary). But through some history about the Ephesians, I think it might make more sense why I believe this isn't an absolute command.

Ephesus was a city drenched in goddess worship long before any Christians were around. A city centered around Greek mythology, and boy was its “history” proof they loved mythology. It was said that Ephesus was first found prehistorically by warrior Amazon women who were priestesses with Hittie roots. The city was first named Apasas (meaning queen bee), after the Amazon queen. 

The second founding came at about 1050 B.C. And the story goes that Androculs was told by an Orcial named Delphi where to found his new city. Which according to legend, was the same place the Amazon women landed.  After the second founding, it came in and out of rule by many different people and even had a venue change, haha, they moved the whole city!

Anyway, Ephesus was built around the worship of the Anatolian mother goddess of Fertility, Cybele. And for good measure threw in a few more goddesses from other people's belief systems. They centered their city around the Temple of Artemis. In its original structure, they had statues of goddesses inside where people could come and worship. This is where we get the Temple of Artemis from, one of the seven wonders of the world! Artemis, also known as Zeus’s daughter, was the goddess of the hunt, wilderness, and childbirth. 

These goddesses were often depicted naked and were praised and worshiped for their outwardly strong appearance, sexual nature, and gaudy attitudes. There would be extravagant festivals to praise the goddesses, in which people would get intoxicated and hold exhibitions of sexual immorality. Can you imagine growing up in an environment where all of this was normalized?  It would make sense that the women raised in this overtly haughty behavior would display it in their own lives… 

We see Paul is giving specific and needed guidelines to each church what they need. This is seen in the letters to the Church of Corinth when Paul was explaining love to them! I'm not going to go into depth about the Church of Corinth, but they were far worse when it came to sexual immorality. They were participating in the region's cult activity and becoming very comfortable with prostitution. We see Paul's letters reflect this, he tells them what true love is and what a marriage should look like. Again, Paul teaches each church what they need, and all can apply to us in a spiritual and physical sense without being a doctrine that would exclude us from living in God’s will if not followed. 

Another very important note to make, women weren't allowed to read or study any of the Torah. If women were not allowed to read or study the Torah and they were trying to teach… a recipe for disaster!!! So of course they shouldn't be allowed to speak, 1) If they tried to teach, they would have no scriptural foundation to stand on. 2) They would be interrupting service by asking questions that their husbands would know the answer to. Very understandably, the women of Ephesus needed some very strict, hard, and fast rules to keep them in alignment. “the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be in submission, as the Law also says.” ‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭34‬

‭We see through studying the history of Ephesus, that women were glorified in a godly manner because of their Greek ties to goddess worship. This led to a haughty and self-inflated female population in the church. Coupled with the fact that women were not allowed to study scripture, it is clear why they were given this command. Women in Ephesus and Corinth needed to be reminded that they had to come into the church with a humble heart and be willing to be taught by the more experienced followers of Jesus. When these women became an issue, Paul had to give them a more physical reminder. Just as the Israelites needed judges as a reminder they were under submission to God. 

I also want to touch on how we as the church today should model what we see in scripture. Women were spoken about by Paul in his correspondents, and even mentions Priscilla helping teach and correct Apollos with her husband; “He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭18‬:‭26‬ 

We see Phoebe as a deaconess, “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church at Cenchreae,” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭16‬:‭1‬

We see Chloe, who most likely had a church in her home, “For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭11‬

If you take a stance against women leading in the church, where does it say “in church women can ONLY lead other women and children”, it doesn't. You draw that conclusion from reading. Just as one can conclude these commands were for Ephesian and Corinthian churches. Quickly I’d like to add, at what age would we say boys would be men? If women cannot teach their sons past 13, that also proves to be a problem. 

Continuing, most congregations have a female leading part of the church, and I don't think they have to try to justify it by saying women can lead children, or women can teach other women. They can feel confident knowing that women can also be in leadership because nothing is preventing them. We also see that during Pentecost the Spirit was poured out on both men and women alike as seen in this verse “And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭

Because Scripture is how we should model our lives and churches, a sole female pastor wouldn't be something I support. Never in scripture do we see a woman solely lead a church congregation? What we do see in scripture is Paul telling us how to be the healthiest body of Christ. We can see that modeled by Prisca and Aquilla leading their church in their home together. I believe most pastoral roles should be filled by a couple who both lead and take care of their flock together. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭24‬ 

A lot of women point to Deborah to say that women can be in leadership, and while I agree, this takes place in the Old Testament. Because we don't have judges around anymore, I don't like using this as a reference. I will say, that she was amazing and truly stepped up to take on what I know was an unpopular role when she was needed! We can all learn from her.

In closing, I argue this,  can a well-studied, well-versed, humble woman make a valuable contribution to both men and women? 

My answer is yes. 

“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church at Cenchreae, that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints, and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a patron of many and of myself as well.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭16‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ 

Audrey Durden

Again, feel free to comment your stance but be kind. We are all learning and growing in Christ.

Check back next week to see why women should not be in leadership roles- PART 2

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